Originally Posted by Miss Mikame

HEH im sure 15 arrows stuck in ya would cause deep wound too

Originally Posted by Faer

Ya, rly.

Originally Posted by Riccari

Rangers get 5 types of bows (Recurve/Hornbow/Flatbow/Longbow/Shortbow) and none of those are particularly overpowered in any way. The concept is that while one bow may be good at one aspect of the game, the others are better at the other aspects.

Take the Flatbow for instance, being able to kill an Archer without even so much as stepping in their aggro bubble, yet alone take a single point of damage, is not by any means underpowered. Quite the opposite.

The Recurve Bow is probably the most robust due to its balanced refire rate and increased accuracy, which is probably what is hinted at underpowered because bows don't do as much damage as typical Warrior and Dervish weapons. The main reason for this is the general position of that Warriors and Dervishs are melee classes and must be next to targets to hit them. Granted you literally must be standing next to your target to hit them with the bow due to the natures of strafing and dodging, standing next to the proposed target isn't so bad. Shorter distance to travel is more hits.

Spears are overpowered, but that's only due to Agressive Refrain.

Even though bows damage aren't that high. The passive disruption of interupting key skills and posion on 3 or more targets makes up for that. I like the fact to be able to hit anyone I want without so much as moving. Also the fact that Rangers are technically invicible on splits (unless they venture too far forward and have Natural Stride killed by Freezing Gust) makes up for any underpoweredness bows may posess.

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I agree that the bow has good interrupting capacity; I disagree that it's a particularly great degen spreader - in that it's not the bow that does that. Apply Poison can be used with anything, granted the bow and spear are the only ranged weapons, hence their usefulness in spreading conditions. The bow skills themselves are largely lousy at spreading conditions, with the exception of crippling shot, and there are only two conditions that can be "spread" via preparations, one can be used with any weapon, bleeding can be spread either via Melandru's Arrows or Barbed Arrows. How often do you see bleeding being spread that way though?

Bows can inflict daze, cripple, bleeding, burning (via elites) and poison (via elite bow attack, or via apply poison for any weapon); daze and burning aren't spreadable, cripple is only via an elite, posion can be spread via apply poison by anyone.

Given how strong condition removal is, and the heal party-type skills that have become prominent (LoD, paragon skills etc.) spreading degen isn't really that strong - sure, it can help, but you are handing out heals to some extent versus condition removal, and the pressure is easily handled by most any team - I don't buy that it's particularly great.

Every other weapon can deep wound, all but hammers can bleed and cripple, only bows, daggers and spears give viable dazes really, unless you use Awe with a hammer, burning can be delivered by spears in a non-elite manner, Poison can be done via apply poison by any X/R, or by bows and daggers, weakness by hammers and axes (and any melee weapon via melee attacks), blind by hammers and daggers, hammers and daggers can KD, as can melee weapons via melee attack skills.

So, in the age of pressure via conditions being handled more easily and condition handling skills being buffed, which is handier - spreading a bit of degen or the ability to deep wound/knockdown? I get why bows don't have a deepwound - it'd make spiking with them so nasty, but paragons have deep wound at a range, and the assassins have gotten a ton of deep wound delivery systems.

To me, the condition argument doesn't wash. I'll agree that they disrupt effectively - that's certainly true. Distracting/Savage are what allows the bow to function in essence. Back before LoD and various other pressure relief skills spreading poison was powerful, now it's ok. Giving up an elite to spread bleeding is unlikely, and barbed arrows is simply inferior to apply poison.

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I am surprised, however, that they gave a deep wound to the spear.

Originally Posted by Wild Karrde

Do you have ANY idea what passive means??? Nothing about the ranger is passive interuption. Passive means it just happens, you dont have to do crap or hit a skill or anything it just happens. Rangers DO NOT have a passive ability to interupt key skills. You have to have skill yourself to interupt some of the faster casting skills.

And for your poison/degen comment the answer is this.

Originally Posted by zling

psst look at [skill]choking gas[/skill] before you make that comment
passive ranger interrupter=Practiced Stance->Choking Gas->whatever else in most cases, dropped Practiced Stance for something else if you want...

Originally Posted by Pericles

...

Originally Posted by Pericles

Also rangers are NOT used in high-end pvp, all the the other classes are.
Everyone who says they are are talking about minor exceptions or are lying.
Period.

Originally Posted by Pericles

Also rangers are NOT used in high-end pvp, all the the other classes are.
Everyone who says they are are talking about minor exceptions or are lying.
Period.

Originally Posted by cataphract

Why is a KD from any type of bow ridiculous? I mean, arrows fired from a longbow have enough kinetic energy to pierce armor and knock a target down. All I'm saying that a skil, elite one to keep it balanced, requiring a longbow or a hornbow could have KD. We all ready have Pin Down that basically says it will hit a target in the leg or foot and cripple it. A KD skill would hit on the chest. It's a simple matter of RL physics.